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Vindicare605 United States15836 Posts March 07 2024 19:37 GMT #1 Notes from ESL/Balance Council En Taro Adun We are happy to push 5.0.13 to PTR which features a variety of Map Pool Updates and Balance. We would like to thank our partners at ESL, Balance Community Council and Community Mapmakers for all your contributions that went into 5.0.13. BALANCE UPDATE General
Terran Liberator Widow Mine Armory Engineering Bay Cyclone Raven Zerg Hatchery/Lair/Hive Infestor Overlord Protoss Observer Sentry Pylon BUG FIXES & QUALITY OF LIFE UPDATE
MAP POOL UPDATE 1v1 Goldenaura LE 2v2 3v3 Flashback CE 4v4 Alaeni Enclave CE | |
Mizenhauer United States1713 Posts March 07 2024 19:43 GMT #2 Can't blame me for that thankfully. | |
Vindicare605 United States15836 Posts March 07 2024 19:43 GMT #3 I'm convinced these balance changes will have next to zero impact on Protoss' struggles in tournament play, which is the main balance concern for most. These changes might have significant impacts in TvZ and TvT though. I for one am relieved the Cyclone is getting nerfed in TvT. The Interference Matrix change is my favorite of this patch. Nerfs how oppresive the spell can be in situations in TvT. Also nerfs it slightly against Protoss which is still needed due to Terran timings with Ravens. | |
Charoisaur Germany15733 Posts March 07 2024 19:46 GMT #4 not sure why the lib nerf is necessary | |
Vindicare605 United States15836 Posts March 07 2024 19:48 GMT #5 On March 08 2024 04:46 Charoisaur wrote: I think the Widow Mine changes are ridiculous but if it will shut up r/starcraft on the issue I'm willing to let it go. This won't have any impact in TvP at all. It will just make mines less effective vs Zerg. The Liberator nerf also seems unneeded but it's not a huge deal since Lib range is such a late game upgrade anyway so whatever. | |
geokilla Canada8180 Posts March 07 2024 19:54 GMT #6 The council's comments on why such changes are made. | |
Moonerz United States419 Posts March 07 2024 19:55 GMT #7 | |
Vindicare605 United States15836 Posts March 07 2024 19:57 GMT #8 On March 08 2024 04:54 geokilla wrote: The council's comments on why such changes are made. The fact the balance council thinks the only thing wrong with Protoss is TvP at the highest level is hilarious. Says everything right there honestly. | |
Durnuu 13309 Posts March 07 2024 19:58 GMT #9 | |
Vindicare605 United States15836 Posts March 07 2024 19:58 GMT #10 On March 08 2024 04:55 Moonerz wrote: That would be a nerf to Zerg. We can't nerf Zerg unless the other races get nerfed more. That's how things work around here. | |
Nebuchad Switzerland11409 Posts March 07 2024 19:58 GMT #11 | |
Vindicare605 United States15836 Posts March 07 2024 20:00 GMT #12 On March 08 2024 04:58 Nebuchad wrote: In the balance council's own words. They aren't nerfing Widow Mines because they think it will help TvP. They are nerfing them because it's a "community concern at all levels of play." They're calling it what it is. A reaction to r/starcraft whining about it so often. That's all it is. The council isn't considering it anything more substantial than that. The fact it has the largest impact by far in TvZ isn't really a concern to anybody apparently. | |
Waxangel United States32779 Posts March 07 2024 20:06 GMT #13 | |
Vindicare605 United States15836 Posts March 07 2024 20:07 GMT #14 On March 08 2024 05:06 Waxangel wrote: I'll add the comments to the main post. oh nvm someone already put the link in there. | |
Mizenhauer United States1713 Posts March 07 2024 20:14 GMT #15 | |
Telephone United States109 Posts March 07 2024 20:15 GMT #16 | |
Nebuchad Switzerland11409 Posts March 07 2024 20:16 GMT #17 On March 08 2024 05:00 Vindicare605 wrote: Show nested quote + In the balance council's own words. They aren't nerfing Widow Mines because they think it will help TvP. They are nerfing them because it's a "community concern at all levels of play." They're calling it what it is. A reaction to r/starcraft whining about it so often. That's all it is. The council isn't considering it anything more substantial than that. The fact it has the largest impact by far in TvZ isn't really a concern to anybody apparently. It is objectively true that it will help TvP. I agree with you that it isn't the change I would have made either, but there's no reason to lie about something obvious. | |
Ciaus237 South Africa233 Posts March 07 2024 20:16 GMT #18 What I like: Observer change, infestor changes, visibility and alert changes for WM (honestly WM drops are so painful this is just good for the game), pylon vision radius. What I don't like: WM splash radius, Lib range nerfs. The lib nerf seems unnecessary? Why are we changing this? And the splash radius is just going to delete bio mine from TvZ completely. Everything else just seems kind of arbitrary. Like... why the sentry + shield damage? What's the plan there? The dropperlord changes seem like an overall buff, I guess, but why? Will have to see how the cyclone plays out to have any feel for it - on first read it seems like they've moved it midway between its last two iterations. Quote from rentry entry: The progamers involved in the balance council feel that the state of Terran versus Zerg and Protoss versus Zerg doesn't require any major balance changes If this is the case, why are we drastically shifting TvZ in Zerg's favor? I hate mines, and am as much a zergy fellow as one can be, but I can admit that the splash radius change is not going to leave the matchup in a pretty state. | |
Maksim2010 29 Posts March 07 2024 20:17 GMT #19 | |
Vindicare605 United States15836 Posts March 07 2024 20:20 GMT #20 On March 08 2024 05:16 Nebuchad wrote: Show nested quote + It is objectively true that it will help TvP. I agree with you that it isn't the change I would have made either, but there's no reason to lie about something obvious. Read the balance council's post, don't take it from me. They say in their own words why they are nerfing Widow Mines. They're nerfing Liberator range for TvP. They're nerfing Widow Mines because r/starcraft wants them to. | |
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